Sunday, September 26, 2010

NC Museum of Art: NORMAN ROCKWELL


I'm not sure if the above painting will be in the exhibit, but since I'm a pharmacist, I am using it in my blog.
EXHIBIT DATES: November 7, 2010 to January 30, 2011.

Check out the north Carolina Museum of Art website for more information:
http://ncartmuseum.org/exhibitions/norman_rockwell/


American Chronicles: The Art of Norman Rockwell traces the evolution of Rockwell’s art and iconography throughout his career—from carefully choreographed reflections on childhood innocence in such paintings asDay in the Life of a Little Girl (1952) to powerful, consciousness-raising images forLook in the 1960s, documenting the traumatic realities of desegregation in the South. Rockwell’s artistic contributions and the impact of his images on American popular culture are explored within the context of his life and times through in-depth exhibition commentary, a decade-by-decade installation of 40 original works of art, and a complete set of 323 Saturday Evening Post cover tear sheets, spanning 47 years. The exhibition travels to 12 national venues through 2013.
The nation’s premier illustrator for more than six decades, Norman Rockwell (1894–1978) was the people’s painter, depicting scenes from American life for the covers and pages of the most prominent publications. Rockwell is most recognized for his illustrations featured on the covers of The Saturday Evening Post from 1916 to 1963. This important exhibition will offer a multidimensional view of America across the 20th century, as seen through Rockwell’s narrative images, which continue to have a singular impact today.
As the first major exhibition in the Museum’s Center for Special Exhibitions, American Chronicles brings the art of America’s most recognized illustrator to North Carolina. Transcending generations, this exhibition provides the opportunity for all visitors, young and old, to discover and rediscover Rockwell’s reflections of 20th-century America.

Thursday, September 16, 2010

OAKWOOD INN B & B JOINS NEUSE RIVERKEEPER FOUNDATION

The Oakwood Inn Bed & Breakfast will be joining the Neuse Riverkeeper Foundation. After listening to a presentation on Friday, September 10 at the Seaboard Station in Raleigh, Doris and I decided that it was an important cause that the Oakwood Inn B & B should support. It is aligned with our position on sustainability and protecting our finite valuable resources. Along with our other “Go Green” policies, we believe that we can help this wonderful cause. Check out their website and join. http://www.neuseriver.org/

OAKWOOD INN B & B's ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSIBILITY - Going Green
Go Green! Sustainability. Eco-friendly. The Oakwood Inn Bed & Breakfast has been environmentally responsible since before Doris and I purchased the Inn in September of 2001. We have always been conservative in our use of natural resources because we know that they are a finite supply and if not used efficiently and effectively, will eventually run out. We ask our guests to please join us and help us be GREEN by being mindful of Mother Nature’s Resource supplies.

Below are many of the things we do at the Oakwood Inn B & B to be GREEN. About a third of which were done in the 1990’s by previous owners of the Inn.

1. Recycle
We participate in the City Recycling program for cans. Plastic, and paper goods.

2. We encourage our guest to also participate by using the same towels and bedding when staying for more than one night. We also use a front load high efficiency wash machine to reduce water usage.

3. We have low flow shower heads.

4. We turn off the room fireplace during warmer months typically from April to November to save fossil fuels.

5. We have programmable thermostats for our three furnaces/air conditioners. The furnaces are high efficiency. Two of the A/C units were replaced in the last 3 years so they are a SHEER 12 & 14 value.

6. We adhere to the City of Raleigh’s water restriction plan regarding lawn and flower watering.

7. We re-use the plastic shopping bags and return many to the store. We also use cloth shopping bags which are reusable.

8. We use foods from local growers whenever possible. (State Farmers Market)

9. Any water left in the guest room pitchers is used to water indoor and outdoor potted flowers.

10. We encourage our guests to walk or use a bicycle rickshaw when going to downtown’s restaurants, attractions, and interests. Raleigh Rickshaw is the name of the bicycle rickshaw service. Check out their website: www.raleighrickshaw.com

11. If needed the guests can take a free daily bus service that is provided by hybrid busses. The hybrids cut fuel consumption.

12. We only have one copy of the local newspaper and USA Today which cuts down on duplicate copies for each guest room which reduces excessive waste. We offer free WiFi so you can read your news online with no extra fees added to your bill.

13. We planted our own vegetable and fruit garden for the Inn. Any excess amounts that we can not use will be taken to Logan Trading Co (Logan’s Nursery) who in turn will donate to the Inter-Faith Food Shuttle which help feed families in need.
In addition, we will be using worms to turn most of our organic garbage into worm castings (manure) which is a natural and efficient fertilizer for the vegetable and flower gardens as well as our lawn. All natural.

Tuesday, September 14, 2010

Upcoming Things To Do In Raleigh

Stay out late and stay a night at The Oakwood Inn Bed & Breakfast. Make a date of it!

Goodnights Comedy Club
Below are some Comics coming into Raleigh. Check out Goodnights website for more details.
http://www.goodnightscomedy.com

Andy Kindler

Thursday, September 16 - Sunday, September 19

• Celebrity Judge on NBC's Last Comic Standing
• CBS’s “Late Show with David Letterman”
• "The Daily Show" and “Everybody Loves Raymond”
• Ubiquitous host of Comedy Central

Ben Bailey

Thursday, September 23 - Saturday, September 25

• Discovery Channel's "Cash Cab"
• Comedy Central Presents
• The Tonight Show with Jay Leno
• Last Call with Carson Daley

With Special Guest, Mike Stankiewicz

Jim Norton

Thursday, Sept. 30 - Saturday, Oct. 2

• HBO's 'Down and Dirty with Jim Norton'
• CBS' 'The Late Show with David Letterman' and NBC's 'The Tonight Show with Jay Leno'
• 'Opie & Anthony Radio Show'


Triangle Segway Tours

TOURS: Triangle Segway's guided Segway tours will get you up close to Raleigh’s points of interest, and unlike a walking tour, you'll be able to cover much more ground as you "glide" from place to place. The tours are fully narrated too, so you'll learn lots of interesting facts and stories about Raleigh's history.
Just Google Triangle Segway Tours in Raleigh. Check out the website.

Wednesday, August 11, 2010

Summer of 2010

Well for most people they'll have about one more month of summer... a very hot summer. Ours down in Raleigh was pretty hot but we did have a few days of relief which helped get the vegetable garden growing. Business has been good since March 2010, with August slacking off a bit. I guess a lot of vacationers going to the beach, or Europe since the dollar is doing better against the Euro.

The North Carolina Museum of History is hosting the Thomas Day exhibit which began in May 2010 and will run for one year. It is free. On September 12, the museum will open a George Washington exhibit: "Discover the Real George Washington: New Views From Mount Vernon." This exhibit is free for ages 18 and under. The fee is $10 for 19 years and up. Check out their website at www.ncmuseumofhistory.org. The Museum of Natural Science is right next to it and then there is the Little Raleigh Museum on Fayetteville Street which has interesting facts about the history of Raleigh. Book a night or two with The Oakwood Inn Bed & Breakfast and you can walk... yes walk to all of these fine attractions. Check out our Facebook page for a special that we are running.

Also for you theatre nuts... Hot Summer Nights at the Kennedy are now happening! The theatre is run by actress Lauren Kennedy who has done Broadway theatre and film, and her husband Tony Award nominated actor Alan Campbell. More on this in another post.

Come to Raleigh for a variety of things to do and see. Forget the heat... don't let it stop you from having fun.... all of these places have air conditioning!
Gary

Tuesday, August 3, 2010

FACEBOOK WELCOMES OAKWOOD INN BED & BREAKFAST

The Oakwood Inn Bed & Breakfast of Raleigh, North Carolina is got a new, well designed, and informative Facebook page. Check it out and also check out the website www.oakwoodinnbb.com.

We were approached by Main Street Host about redesigning our website to link to a Facebook and Twitter accounts. They are also going to assist us with our SEO for the website. Just today I read an article in the business section of The News & Observer stated that "Email No Longer the Hipster... Social networks top traditional." It says that Americans spend one third of their time on social networks! It says that time spent on traditional e-mail and portals like Yahoo have declined.

If we all keep spending so much time developing relationships and connections through all of these social and business networks, we may be able to connect to anyone in the world at anytime and without the use of a phone.... except for texting.

It's supposed to be a great marketing tool for people and businesses. We've always tracked how our guests have found us, so it will be interesting to seeing how powerful the social networks will be in funneling business to us.
I've been on LinkedIn with the Inn attached to my name since December 2009, and it has not brought any business or potential business to us. It will be interesting to see what the social network does as proclaimed by all the new marketing gurus. Personally, I think they maybe correct, but time will tell if the numbers show it.

Friday, June 11, 2010

25 YEARS & COUNTING... NOW 26!! A Story for you.

The year 2009 was a big year for the Oakwood Inn Bed & Breakfast of Raleigh, North Carolina. On June 2, 2009 the Inn celebrated its 25th year anniversary operating as a bed and breakfast. It was a proud day for Gary and Doris Jurkiewicz who are the current owners/innkeepers. Also on September 1, 2009, Doris and Gary Jurkiewicz celebrated eight years at being innkeepers of Raleigh’s first B & B. They are also the innkeepers with the longest tenure at the Inn. Prior to Doris and Gary all the other innkeepers averaged about 4 years and there were 4 sets of different innkeepers prior to them.

What made them hang on the longest? “A variety of reasons,” says Gary. “We purchased the Inn on September 1, 2001. Ten days later we got hit with 9/11. That was a real shocker. Occupancy tumbled. Soon afterwards, our weekends were basically full, but we lost all of our weekday business which happens to be corporate travelers.” Gary and Doris hung on for about six months, and then Gary went to work part-time as a relief pharmacist. He did that a couple of years for the extra money and health insurance, until things came back to reasonable occupancy levels.

“It never came back to what the previous owners supposedly had, but enough for us to see the potential in this place,“ says Doris. “I’ve always believed in the Inn and Raleigh as a very positive thing that has come across in our lives. We have experienced ups and downs, but overall I wouldn’t trade where we are in our lives with anything else.”

Over the next couple of years, the Inn’s business increased until the economic crisis hit Raleigh in 2008. In September of that year, the Inn hit bottom. The Oakwood Inn along with every other business saw its numbers fall to levels much lower than after 9/11. “After 9/11 people were afraid to travel but had the money and means,” Gary recalls, “but this new economic crisis had people looking at their retirement plans and wondering how to pay for vacations and travel.”

Doris is confident about Raleigh bouncing back. “We have all ready seen a huge upswing in our occupancy since March 2010,” she says, “and it’s still going fairly strong.” “It’s a shame that the economy collapsed in 2008, because 2009 was the 25th year anniversary of the Inn and we were hoping for a banner year. Even though the numbers were down for 2009, we had a wonderful, uplifting moment in May.”

On May 28, 2009 a memorable reunion was held at the Oakwood Inn Bed & Breakfast between the original first guests of the inn and the original Innkeepers from 25 years ago. Paul and Jean Higgins were the first guests that stayed at the Inn when it first opened on June 2, 1984. They were driving down from Virginia to see the son at Fort Bragg and stopped at a visitor center just into the North Carolina border. They asked the visitor center staff if there were any B & Bs in Raleigh. They told them that they just received information that one just opened that weekend. Paul and Jean continued on to Raleigh and registered as the first guests at the Inn.

“There must be a lucky aura about the house,” Gary said. “On the 25 of May 2009, I received a call.” The caller wanted a room for May 28. “Not a problem,” Gary replied. And then the conversation became intriguing.

“Well, we’d like a room on the second floor, however, is the Polk room available.”
“Yes, it is,” Gary replied.
“That is the one my husband and I stayed in 25 years ago. We were the first guests that stayed at the Inn.”

Yeah, right, Gary thought. Skeptical… you bet! “Oh really, and when was that?”
“June second, I believe, it was the first weekend of June.”

This is a possibility, Gary thought to himself. He had an article that was printed in the Raleigh Times May 29, 1984 edition which talked about the Grand Opening of the Oakwood Inn Bed and Breakfast which also provided some information about the first guests that would be staying at the Inn that opening day in June. He asked a few more questions, and decided that Jean and Paul, must be the original guests. Gary then promptly called four of the original five innkeepers who still live in Raleigh. He asked if they could come to the inn on Thursday and have a little reunion; three of them agreed to come.

The Innkeepers in 1984 were Oakley and Donna Herring, Chris Yetter and Steve Zamparelli, and Donna’s mother, Olive Colman. Back on that momentous June day, Oakley and Donna were there to greet the couple at the Oakwood Inn B & B.
“They were standing on the porch waiting for us to arrive back then,” Jean Higgins recalled.

Twenty five years later on May 28, 2009, Chris Yetter, Oakley and Donna Herring again welcomed Paul and Jean to the Oakwood Inn, along with the current innkeeper Doris Jurkiewicz. As soon as they all saw each other, they recognized each other, and June 2, 1984 was reborn once again. Hand shakes and warm greetings were exchanged. Doris learned how Donna made dinner and asked for Paul and Jean to join her and Oakley. Later, Doris took everyone on a tour of the Inn which again had Innkeepers sharing stories from back when the Inn first opened. After an hour or so of reminiscing, Paul opened a bottle of champagne which he brought to celebrate the occasion.

In 1985 Chris Yetter began soliciting potential members to form a North Carolina Bed & Breakfast Association which organized in 1986 with Chris Yetter as its first president and the Oakwood Inn was one of thirty charter inns of the association. Oakley said that after they sold the inn in 1987, he didn’t think the new owners would be able to make it work. Business was bad and the Inn not profitable. The Inn changed hands three more times before being sold to Doris and Gary Jurkiewicz in September 2001.

When you realize that many B & Bs are just people’s homes that are rented out to strangers, and many innkeepers just seem to handle the pressure for about 4-7 years. Many B & Bs, close down or return back to personal residences after a short run. Those that run longer maybe go about 10-15.

“For a bed and breakfast to stay in business this long is quite an accomplishment. Innkeeping can be a tough, yet rewarding business. The folks who have been running The Oakwood Inn must be doing it right, obviously having been rewarded by a constant flow of loyal customers for a quarter-century,” said Jay Karen, President & CEO of Professional Association of Innkeepers International.

The Oakwood Inn has made it this far. Hopefully it will go on to see its 50th golden anniversary. Doris and Gary hope they will be there to see that accomplishment and doubt will be the innkeepers, but they’ll have the glowing pride that Chris, Donna, and Oakley had on May 28, 2009.

Thursday, April 29, 2010

OAKWOOD INN B & B's ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSIBILITY - Going Green

Go Green! Sustainability. Eco-friendly. The Oakwood Inn Bed & Breakfast has been environmentally responsible since before Doris and I purchased the Inn in September of 2001. We have always been conservative in our use of natural resources because we know that they are a finite supply and if not used efficiently and effectively, will eventually run out. We ask our guests to please join us and help us be GREEN by being mindful of Mother Nature’s Resource supplies.

Below are many of the things we do at the Oakwood Inn B & B to be GREEN. About a third of which were done in the 1990’s by previous owners of the Inn.

1. Recycle
We participate in the City Recycling program for cans. Plastic, and paper goods.

2. We encourage our guest to also participate by using the same towels and bedding when staying for more than one night. We also use a front load high efficiency wash machine to reduce water usage.

3. We have low flow shower heads.

4. We turn off the room fireplace during warmer months typically from April to November to save fossil fuels.

5. We have programmable thermostats for our three furnaces/air conditioners. The furnaces are high efficiency. Two of the A/C units were replaced in the last 3 years so they are a SHEER 12 & 14 value.

6. We adhere to the City of Raleigh’s water restriction plan regarding lawn and flower watering.

7. We re-use the plastic shopping bags and return many to the store. We also use cloth shopping bags which are reusable.

8. We use foods from local growers whenever possible. (State Farmers Market)

9. Any water left in the guest room pitchers is used to water indoor and outdoor potted flowers.

10. We encourage our guests to walk or use a bicycle rickshaw when going to downtown’s restaurants, attractions, and interests. Raleigh Rickshaw is the name of the bicycle rickshaw service. Check out their website: www.raleighrickshaw.com

11. If needed the guests can take a free daily bus service that is provided by hybrid busses. The hybrids cut fuel consumption.

12. We only have one copy of the local newspaper and USA Today which cuts down on duplicate copies for each guest room which reduces excessive waste. We offer free WiFi so you can read your news online with no extra fees added to your bill.

13. We planted our own vegetable and fruit garden for the Inn. Any excess amounts that we can not use will be taken to Logan Trading Co (Logan’s Nursery) who in turn will donate to the Inter-Faith Food Shuttle which help feed families in need.
In addition, we will be using worms to turn most of our organic garbage into worm castings (manure) which is a natural and efficient fertilizer for the vegetable and flower gardens as well as our lawn. All natural.

Sunday, January 31, 2010

Coffee Cups for 25Years of Service

Pell Room Balcony


Linden Room Renovations


Saturday, January 23, 2010

Daughters, City Chicken, Christmas Visit

Well, it’s been a week now since my two daughters, new son-in-law, and the other daughter’s boyfriend visited with us at the Inn. It was our Christmas with them since they could not come down during the Holiday Season. We did a simple Christmas. I told the girls, we are going to just give you a card with money, and you guys can just take Doris and I out to a restaurant for a nice dinner and buy all the beer for those 5 days.
Dan, Erin’s husband, had foot surgery on both feet a couple days before arriving, so he was not as mobile as he normally would have been. But he got to rest and relax. Diana’s boyfriend, Joe, came to Raleigh for the first time. So Diana took he around to see some of the sights and downtown.

We went to J Betski’s for our Christmas dinner on last Thursday, which was grand. Ate at home for a couple of nights, and also went to Sitti for a wonderful dinner on last Friday evening. On Saturday evening the girls and I made city chicken. One of our favorite dishes that I learned from my mother growing up in Michigan.

City Chicken??!! No one down here in Raleigh knows about this wonderful food. Go to the meat market and ask for city chicken sticks and the butcher looks at you like “what the hell are you talkin’ about.” Yes! It has its very own sticks!!

City chicken is made with veal and pork, usually the stewing kind. You get a city chicken stick and skewer the meat alternating pork, veal with basically two veal pieces to three pork. After that, you season the meat with a little salt, pepper, and maybe garlic powder. Dust it with a little flour to make sure the egg dip sticks. For my egg dip, I just use a about five eggs and ½ cup of milk or half and half for about 40 sticks which is made from about 3 lbs of veal and 5 lbs of pork… lean stewing pork…. There has to be some fat for flavor and tenderness, but too much can be too fatty.

After the you dip in egg, roll the city chicken in your seasoned breading. My mother used to always grind up Corn Flakes and season with salt and pepper. I do the same but also add some garlic powder. Season to taste. Yes, try a little to see if it is too salty, or whatever. Add more ground up Corn Flakes if necessary.

Bread the city chicken and then fry them in about ¼ to ½ inch of hot vegetable oil. Fry until the breading is cooked which is a golden brown; don’t fry to cook the meat. You fry to just brown the breading! Now put the fried city chicken sticks in a greased cooking pan WITH A LID. Put about two layers and the cover. Put in a 350 to 375 degree oven and cook for about 1.5 to 2 hours or until the meat is very tender to a fork. It you put another third layer in the pan or more, it will take longer to cook. If that is the case, the bottom ones will get more burnt, so be careful. The great thing about the bottom layer is that it gets a little of that very dark “burnt” gooey stuff on them which gives the bottom layer a wonder taste. My younger daughter, Diana, loves… simply loves the bottom ones! The great thing is that city chicken is very good cold or the next day, or the next day, or the next day….

It was a great time cooking with both of my daughters, Erin and Diana. Erin and Diana skewered the meat, seasoned, floured, and breaded them. I just had to fry them… and to be honest; the both of them could have done it all. Actually, I know for a fact, that Erin has made this dish many times. She does very well… Grandma J would be proud! Erin and Diana, both are good cooks, but I think Erin cooks more than Diana. It was a great time cooking with both of them. I loved it and very proud of them knowing how to prepare a wonderful meal. Erin also made a dish of cauliflower and carrots lightly breaded and sauté with some butter and seasoning. Very simple but very good… great flavor.

We had a fabulous meal and then “opened gifts”, and then sat outside with drinks and talking, and then later played a little on the Wii. We had a great visit.

Saturday, January 9, 2010

America - A Neutered Society

Over the holidays there were some comments made about political correctness in our society when it comes to holiday celebrations. I understand about keeping any religion out of our government and making sure our government does not invade or promote any specific religion. However, this country was founded by many Christians and they sort of kept some of those beliefs or thinking in establishing this country, although religion and government are separate as entities. God and our Creator are mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. “In God We Trust” appears on our money, and for decades we swore on a bible (which was of Christian origin) in our courts. I do not believe it was all done intentionally as to promote the Christian religion or beliefs, but maybe just to re-affirm to everyone that certain things were held in such high regard and since the majority of those creating the government and its rules were Christian, their beliefs leached out into their writing. I may be wrong. Maybe it was done purposefully.

The one thing that does seem to be occurring in America is that we worry about everyone’s feelings and do not want to offend, but in doing so, the majority seems to get offended. If I lived in China, I would tend to think that their beliefs, values and morals come from their religious leader. Same in Israel, and in India, etc. All of those things would prevail throughout their culture, and me being a Christian, I would be in the minority and would have to accept it. Hopefully, I would be able to find a place of worship. Their societies or cultures have a flavor, uniqueness, a personality because of their peoples’ beliefs and values. In the USA, we seem to be going toward a sterile or neutered culture where there is no predominant way of thinking or believing. We are required to accept all and act like all to the point that no one can feel left out or offended.

I don’t feel that is a good thing because we lose our character and our essence. Just because some belief predominates, like having a Christmas tree or Christmas party, it should not be forced on those who do not wish to participate. After all, if the Christmas tree or Christmas party is at that special time of year, then call it what it is. If you have it at Hanukkah, call it a Hanukkah party… call it a Hanukkah/Christmas party if it covers both holiday periods. Have a Christmas/Kwanzaa party at the office if wanted. The retailers started calling it the Christmas season after Thanksgiving to increase their sales. After all, Christmas is only two days, the 24th and 25th. Hanukkah is eight days of celebration, and Kwanzaa is 7 days after Christmas.

The United States feels like having a neighborhood of homes almost all looking the same, only minor variations. It comes across as boring, lacking imagination and uniqueness, and minus that character I mentioned. I live in a Victorian neighborhood, but we do have homes with styles from other eras, but we are still classified as a Victorian neighborhood because the majority of the homes were from that time period. The other homes are not outwardly acknowledged due to their difference, but then again not excluded by any means in promotions or discussions. They are a part of the Victorian neighborhood.

It would be great to honor all holidays of all our religions and nationalities. If we were lucky, we maybe would only have to work 5 days out of the 365 due to the paid holidays and weekends off! I am wondering if there are any other countries that seem to have problems with the politically correctness and religion out of government issues that seem to consume us in the USA.

Saturday, January 2, 2010

Another Year Ends Another Begins

And so it goes! 2009 finishes and not too soon of us. What a dismissal year for business.... 36% occupancy was compared to 42% in 2008 and 50% in 2007. The fiasco of Wall Street Economics certainly took its toll on us in the hospitality industry, especially in markets that depend on the business traveler. The bankers and those all connected with the real estate surge financially raped the rest of us. Every time someone stayed with us, I personally thanked them for stimulating the economy, because the banks certainly were doing their fair share. Every time any one of us spent a little money, we helped bring the economy back to normal. Someone rented a room and we in turn paid someone to clean it, someone to cut the lawn, someone to repair a toilet. Hopefully, those that were paid, spent some of it to others and on and on. That's how an economy is established... bartering and trading services and products. Those that hoard their money only hurt the economy from recovering.

It is really annoying for those that put us into this economic mess, are still the ones hoarding after receiving millions to assist them from economic failure and doom! That is life….those that have and those that have-not.... a war between the rich and poor, the affluent and the struggling. It has always existed in our societies and always, always will.

Looking on the better side of things.... just as in the past, the economy will make a come back, maybe not was strong or should I say, as prominent as a couple of years ago, but things will make a turn around. The issue is if you as a business can sustain yourself through the lower cash flow. Not making a profit is not the enemy of a successful business; not having an adequate cash flow to pay 85% of the bills is what will cause a business to fail.

The experts are saying that the hospitality industry will not see a major turn around until the third quarter of 2010. They also say it will not return to significant increases in occupancy rate and increased room rates until about late 2011 or early 2012. That would be expected as long as some other fiasco or catastrophe does not befall us. The cycles of economic affluence do not seem to last as long as they did in the 1950's, 1960's or 1970's. Hopefully that is also true of the economic turndowns.

As in the past, we will begin a new year with a new outlook and with new challenges. Hopefully, it will give us a year of positive outlook and provide a more stable financial future. It probably would be easier if we got rid of those who caused our demise in the first place... but that will never happen.